Sheriff’s Deputy Abandons Post – Follows Beaver Countian Taking Photographs

deputy-photographs

A Beaver County Sheriff’s Deputy abandoned his post providing security at the front doors of the courthouse today, when he tracked down this reporter, extended his middle finger, took photographs and then began waving.

Deputy John Joe Fratangeli remained silent as this reporter went through security to enter the courthouse today, but was seen a short time later peering through a window into the Controller’s Office with his cellphone camera. Fratangeli extended his middle finger, then smiled, took a photograph, and waved before leaving.

The Beaver Countian was in the Controller’s Office at the time, examining the propriety of an invoice for reimbursement submitted by Prothonotary Nancy Werme, who recently attended a taxpayer funded convention.

Several witnesses saw Fratangeli leaving his post, following the Beaver Countian, and later heard him bragging that he managed to take photographs. Fratangeli was seen at the front doors showing the photographs to other employees of the Sheriff’s Office. Other witnesses heard Fratangeli questioning individuals about this reporter’s whereabouts, and about who this reporter speaks to when in the building.

Deputy Fratangeli is currently under criminal investigation by the Beaver County Detectives under suspicion he knowingly provided false statements in an Affidavit of Probable Cause used to justify charges against Larry Hicks. Sheriff David and his Deputies had accused Hicks of preparing to commit an act of mass murder at Friendship Ridge, accusations District Attorney Anthony Berosh later deemed unfounded.

Sources inside of the Sheriff’s Office say Fratangeli was one of the last Deputies seen on video leaving a room in the department that was later discovered splattered with human feces.

Along with being a Sheriff’s Deputy, John Joe Fratangeli is also a Supervisor for Independence Township, and a part-time officer for the Beaver Police Department.

Note: In the interest of full disclosure, this reporter is a named victim in criminal charges filed against Sheriff George David by the Pennsylvania State Police.

 

122 comments

  1. Raised in the ‘hood, worked for the ‘hood, becomes a hood! Typical Alighetto trash.

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  2. maybe he finds you, just that darn attractive.

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  3. Another member of Sheriff David’s Gestapo. I can’t believe he holds other positions in Beaver County. That is rather frightening, no??

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  4. The more this guy does, the deeper in trouble he will get. Being part of the GD gang, he is going to dig himself a grave. Maybe he should start acting like a public servant rather than a little punk kid. You’re going to go down JJ. and you will not make your mother proud, Oh, that’s right, she’ll get you out of this one also. :thumbsdown:

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  5. at ohbrother!!!! your a tool . you couldnt make a pimple on a cops ass

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  6. ohbrother are you from DOPEWELL

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  7. That is stupid that deputy needs to be fired but that wouldnt happen he is the boss go to for for his dirty work. The way they talk about him he is nothing but a little baby carrying a badge that needs to have his ass beat but he might poop his pants like some other deputy or is it that the shit the pants man. :crap: That is great that that is what our tax payer dollars are paying for thank you sherriff for the fine deputys we pay for you are doing a real good job. GET THAT LITTLE BABY A DEPENDS IF NOT HIM FIND THAT NASTY ASS PIG.

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  8. In any other administration he would have been fired immediately. But no, Georgies “BOY” continues to recieve paychecks from us. He is a punk, was a punk and always will be a punk. He’s a disgrace to that badge he wears. Now just wait for his arrest and watch the baby cry.I can’t wait !

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    • SD, I like your direct, up front, call it like it is, truthful, style. I consider you reality counseling for the dishonest and corrupt. Kudos to you. Spike

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  9. Ok, here’s what I don’t get!!! Fratangeli is being investigated, David has a litany of charges against him, a deputy that chases after his girlfriend all day, and a few deputies who stand around the halls and do nothing, and they all get paid big $$$$$$..We see it every day…especially David who is only there a few hours a day! What’s wrong with this picture, folks???

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    • Thanks Raven you had me worried but you are very well spoken and you seem to know a good deal about law. What ever you are you are a pretty sharp guy. Maybe I should tell JP giving the finger is disorderly conduct?? Dennis

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    • Wow I worked my last 15 years for Penn Dot and standing around all day doing nothing and getting paid is not OK???? When was this thought up? Spike

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  10. Always good times in the sheriff’s department.

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  11. Woo hoo….John Joe has a picture with his spiffy new iphone. Of course, he could have just watched the security cameras to determine anybody’s whereabouts but I guess he felt that he would be more intimidating by following JP. I haven’t yet figured out whether he’s too stupid to be afraid or just too arrogant but his accomodations in the Beaver County Jail are being prepped…and what a fine day it will be when he checks in to his new cell. I sure hope he gets a very large cellmate that finds him to be attractive.

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  12. Isn´t Beaver County just a fabulous place to live? People are just so well mannered.

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  13. Hey #@ thats only because cuz fired you first and kept jj. thats right , dont be angry little man,………….you too should have been gone long time ago. brother

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  14. Unbelievable that we the law abiting working taxpayers go to work daily and are held accountable for what we do while on the clock…and then there is yet even more of this crap from BC employees going on… Leaving a security post?? Taking pics?? I am paying for this childishness out of my taxes?? UGH!!!!!!

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  15. wow, disgrace to badge and crying, damn sounds just like your looking in the mirror btother, or should i say CUZ or cousin .

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    • Cuz my ass. You have no idea who I am. I look at the mirror and am proud of what I have become. Is your nose up the sheriffs ass too. Seems that way ! J.J. will cry, wait and see !You must think I’m J.D., Yeah, go express your opinion to him. We’ll see how brave you are !

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  16. There is now a name for the disease this deputy might have. It´s to be called the Zimmerman Complex. They begin to carry a gun and their head swells up to the point to where they think they are the world´s next super hero.

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  17. Just proves there are too many people standing around at the courthouse entrance doing nothing. On any given day there are 3 to 4 uniforms standing around. Didn’t someone miss a gun in a purse awhile back? Our tax dollars not at work!!! No wonder this County is a joke!!!

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  18. A circus. Another day at the Big Top. No need to bring in any more clowns. They’ve filled one small room already. As Candy said to her Family Feud toes, “You’re going down, Piggy Family. You’re going down!”

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  19. I’m sure skirt sniffer and the sheriff put him up to that. So much for security I guess..I hope beaver county sees what’s going on.

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  20. Sick of hearing about the bullshit, you would think that the only news in this county is of suspected dirty cops. I stopped in to this site just to see what vendetta the writer is having and who he is targeting now. The sad thing is that some stories are well researched and other are clearly just thrown together to keep a group or person(s) fresh in the minds of those who believe everything the writer is publishing or just those who are that weak of mind that can’t see the difference in an actual story or vendetta.

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    • It always makes me laugh to hear people say how much they hate this site or JP but always seem to be reading it and making comments.

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    • @My opinion is: There is no vendetta here, but if JP wanted to have one, he would have plenty of reason. If there is a vendetta, it is from the people covered in his articles that don’t like what he has to reveal about them. Their “entitlement” to “bullshit” (your word) and wrongdoing that they are used to (because it has been hidden) is being exposed. Not good for them. The scope of the BC articles is limited by their very nature for now — mostly, but not all, investigative reporting. The site is being built up, but that takes time, and it has come a very long way in a relatively short time. It is filling a gap, among many, that exists in local news coverage. There was time in the past when the Beaver Times did reporting. Real reporting, not teaser filler material to carry its ads and keep it afloat financially. Perhaps a friend of yours died, and you can’t read the obituary unless you subscribe to or buy the Times. What about paying for public notices? Say what? What about a newspaper’s responsibility to the community, especially when it has a monopoly? As an example of the Times of the past, the article the Times published about John Hineman’s death mentioned his illegal activities and prosecution. The readers howled at the sacrilege. How dare they?! But that was long ago, and the paper didn’t have to worry about its bottom line or reputation. It had a modicum of guts, mainly because of the integrity of the editor. No more. So, this site does not entertain to your full expectations. It can’t right now, but maybe someday it will. (For what it is worth: I have virtually no connection to he BC or JP himself). I just want good journalism to rise again in this county and for the people to have access to it.

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  21. @My opinion is: If this site were ONLY about dirty cops and official corruption, that would validate it. This ugly filth is systemic and county-wide, and it is HURTING people. From the cop who “dates” his girlfriend while on duty, to fabricated police reports, to threats of killing a reporter with a service gun, to quota and bogus traffic stops, to crooked lawyers and weak-kneed judges and politicians and shit on the walls, things are bad around here, and I would not encourage anyone to move here. I am sorry I did. It is historic and malignant, and it will never change, except in small ways that you read about here. I loved growing up in this town, but I can’t wait until I get the hell out and move to a place where the public doesn’t have to play nursemaid to its government or live in paranoid anticipation of being caught up in it.

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    • Raven, I can tell you are an attorney as I speak legalese. If more attorneys had your moral values and integrity we wouldn’t have near the problems we have. My hat goes off to you. I can picture my relatives now rolling all around the graveyard after they hear I praised an attorney God forgive me. Spike

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      • Sorry Dennis, I’m not an attorney. Honest. Nor would I want to be one. I come from an entirely different profession. But, thanks for the kind words. Your relatives can rest easily now.

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  22. This might sound revengeful, but some of us remember the charges, arrest and conviction of Sheriff John W. Hineman in 1972 on obstruction of the law related to curbing gambling activities in this county and, allegedly, across the border in West Virginia. It took 4 years, but he was jailed in 1976. It might be 40+ years later, but “It’s déjà vu all over again.” Ironically, his career and political base fell, and people looked for a new beginning, but it was only temporary. The free rein of the elected office allows for exploitation of it, and only new elections by an educated and involved electorate and ongoing revelations and arrests and convictions of the wrongdoers will slow it down. It’s sad.

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  23. SpeakTheTruthToo

    How juvenile and high schoolish how can you be?

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  24. hey John Paul post a link to the Times story think it was 2008 August , that little fucker took s a county owned sheriff’s car to do private secruity work at the aliquippa mpi club, got drunk, in uniform with gun, did a litney off other things then had a private citizen drive him and cruiser home where on the way got sick began to puke state trooper came to scene, let them go that midget got few days suspension that was it then promoted , worked detail with another guy a sheriff relative…a joker should be in a carnival

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  25. To those interested in my permit issue. One of the attorneys involved stated on paper I admitted in writing one of the things I liked to do was “pee” on attorneys, That’s right, “pee” on attorneys Attorney named George Verlihay. I think he works for the Housing Authority. Great idea I admit but I can’t take credit for it. 3 weeks ago I asked for this document I admitted in writing and it seems he can’t find it. Then he adds about 6 inches to the file alleging I by my own admission to having Borderline Personality Disorder which would be pretty silly as I have a document coming from the veterans hospital to address this latest lie. no signs of any mental illness that makes me a danger to myself or others Looks like the Housimg Authority may be a whole new undiscovered looney bin ripe for exposure from John Paul. Attorney Verlihay may be dishonest but he does not lack creativity. This is a man the Housing Authority is paying with your tax dollars my guess is $500.00 to put this in writing. I am trying to get him to tell me which attorneys I have peed on as I seem to have missed that. Don’t believe me? Its in the file I have made sure was open to the public. I seem to barely remember when I drank far too much one night a (little person) Chinese transvestite with a wooden leg that fell asleep in the bed of my pickup when I had to go but I’m sure he wasn’t an attorney. These are the people that sit in judgement of our gun rights or the Housing Authority rules. Dennis McKee

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    • Thanks Dennis, we know you won’t put up with that bullshit but we’re in your cheering section. Good luck !

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      • Thanks so much SD. Its just amazing how silly and dishonest some of them are. “Peeing” on Attorneys who would even think of such a silly childish thing to say. And all this silliness about a mental illness I never had just trying in desperation at all costs including out and out lying to cover something they had no right to do in the first place. Sadly many of our veterans do become troubled with these things because we just are not designed to go off to war and I believe this kind of tactic trying to make any veteran look bad because he or she served is disgraceful. I was not better I was only luckier and it could have easily been true about me. So if it was its OK to demean me because I have an illness I can’t help. People in wheel chairs can’t help it either would this clown demean them too? And what if it was true what about my right to not have my medical records exposed because had it been true that’s what would have been done. Personally I don’t care as I can stand up for myself but every one can’t. What if one of his kids had depression should we make it public? Who would do such a thing? Its spelled Verlihay. I reread my letter and I do not have any personality disorders either. Thankfully. Spike

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    • http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=borderline-personality-disorder&page=2
      If you don’t have BPD, then can you explain this? THIS IS BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION.

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      • WHOA! Spike just got BUSTED! You go girl!

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      • Sure can, there “ink Queen” with the mouth of honey. Just waiting to draw you in again to say something stupid and you never disappoint. If you look in the case file you will see I filed a request for Production of Documents and in one request I asked for this document “Where by my own Admission” and the one that said I “peed” on attorneys. The time frame is up and neither of these documents have been produce, so how do you explain this as long as we are asking? I think it would be interesting at best if the Veterans Hospital said I have no personality disorders and no mental illness that causes me to be a danger yet I’m putting it on paper saying I do? Now, you are either one of the liars saying this about me or you are even dumber than I thought you were. They put this out when they knew I didn’t have BPD because they are dishonest and thought I didn’t know how to deal with it. Why don’t you call the VA and tell them what I have?. And Nikki Don’t you know the Hippa Act prevents the release of medical information and if it was true sure looks like you don’t respect our nations veterans or know any more about these laws than you do about the ones about our rights to practice law. Looks like this document is with the laws that say you must have a license to practice law. I think a lot of your problem is you are just stupid. :)))))))

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      • Sweetie, I’m not sure if you are either stupid or drunk, but did you read the link? Obviously not, so here, I’ll post it here for you.
        spikeonline in reply to singularitynow 12:10 AM 11/8/08
        i have managed myself for many years with this disorder and I believe the key is to meet your needs for agression by participating in socially acceptable forms of agression. I have given myself a legal education and I fight for people that cannot either for economic, social or intellectual reasons protect themselves from a dishonest court system. My adversaries are always lawyers and always put up a real battle that more than meets my needs for agression. When I start feeling my bpd needs I go pee on a lawyer that is taking advantage of someone they shouldn’t be. Then I can think of what a great guy I am and many others, especially victims agree with me. As well, people with this disorder must change what they tell themselves to the unemotional truth as our feelings lie to us with great consistancy. They tell us there is danger when no danger exists and they tell us there is no danger when there is danger. I consider bpd to be a gift if it is properly managed. Thanks Dennis McKee Beaver Falls, Pa.
        THESE WERE WORDS YOU TYPED YOURSELF. I DIDN’T MAKE ANYTHING UP.
        In the “imaginary time frame” you say is up, yet I found it in less than 5 minutes. Also, I have no reason to lie about you, I’m just reposting what you typed. Didn’t anyone ever tell you that once it’s online, it’s there FOREVER? Oh, and I’m not bound by HIPPA, seeing as YOU made it public knowledge. All I have done is expose you FOR THE LYING, BULLSHITTING PIECE OF SHIT YOU ARE. And again, quit trying to turn this around on me, just cause you got caught out in one of your MANY LIES.

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      • Oh sweetie, I almost forgot to mention: YOU DIDN’T BAIT ME IN OR DRAW ME IN TO ANYTHING. You are banking on the fact that most people won’t do their own research, and will believe whatever comes out of your mouth.
        Plain and simple: YOU LIED, AND I CALLED YOU OUT ON IT. I CAN’T WAIT TO HEAR YOUR EXPLAINATION FOR THIS…..it should be entertaining, to say the least.

        *Grabs popcorn, pulls up a chair, and waiting for the next lie to fall out of your mouth*

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    • What does ANY of this have to do with the Housing Authority of Beaver County?
      All this looks like to me is that you are trying to use a diversionary tactic and muddy the waters, so that the spotlight is taken off of you, and focused elsewhere.
      Well, that I can understand. If I had gotten caught out in a blatant lie and was garnering the kind of attention that you are doing right now, I wouldn’t want people focusing on me or whatever legal issues I had upcoming either.

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      • Nikki you are not going to irresponsibly just make comments about a case you have not read completely so you know full well what this has to do with the Housing Authority. How can I possibly keep people from focusing on something that is entirely part of the public record? There is not a single thing on this case that is not public and if you remember I was the one that demanded it be public. If I was trying to hide something why was I the one that insisted it all be public? Please look up the word Buffoon. George

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      • Now you have another name to add to the list? Nice. Good smokescreen so that you can say that you didn’t write any of those statements, your account must have been hacked, etc etc.
        If I was to look up the word buffoon, I’m sure that there would be an entire McKee family portrait there.

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  26. I do not want anyone to mistake me thinking that anyone that did not serve our country or choose not to enlist as disloyal or a draft dodger. I am speaking only of all those in the 60′s who avoided service when called or needed. Its fine if they couldn’t serve for health reasons if it was real. Like today if one does not want to serve its fine we have an all volunteer force no disloyalty with that. Or some people that served with a civilian contractor in the combat zones were fine as they were in danger like the soldiers were. An example would be our Sheriff who was fit enough after the war was over to become a police officer but he couldn’t serve? He was OK with that as he had a gun but the people he went after did not. War is different as everyone has a gun. Spike

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  27. Hi All, I Just want you responsible gun owners out there to know the attitude of our Sheriff about gun ownership. I do not always agree with the NRA however in this instance I do. They say it is not only a right but a responsibility to own and be skilled with a firearm. The Sheriff asked me if I went by a school and they were in his words “shooting the place up” what would I do? I said I would stop and take out the person that was killing our teachers and kids. Then he said what about the police. I said let someone else call them I am here now and people are dying. He said and I quote that is “the wrong answer” you should call and wait for the police then he called me a “vigilante”. This and the mental illness I don’t have is why he took my permit. All I can say is I am a United States Marine who took an oath to protect our people and our Constitution with my life if necessary and him believing what he said is why he is not and never could be one. So, if you are in the parking lot being raped and killed and I have a gun I should call the police and watch you get killed? Call me what ever you wish but I’m not doing that and if that is what is expected of me the Sheriff is correct I shouldn’t have a firearm. Vigilante, Spike

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  28. That just goes to show people his STUPID FUCKING MENTALITY ! He’s an ASSHOLE no matter how it’s looked at. Keep at it Spike !

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  29. As a matter of fact, why didn’t the sheriff call the REAL POLICE during the Friendship Ridge incident. No, he had to get his big nose on t.v. He should have practiced what he preaches !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    • Hi All, Just thought I would publish a list of those that wanted to take my firearm in order of occurrence.
      Viet Cong
      Sheriff George David

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  30. hopwell02 you are a punk you should get your facts straight I get my pension every month so go to work your three shifts for the small amount of money you make you parttime jackoff,now you know who I am and I am easy to find so come find me and run your mouth tough guy.You could not hold a candle to me as a cop I forgot more than you will ever see, It is guys like you that make the job look bad that is why all the older guys on the job hate it because of punks like you.

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  31. only the truth

    the game off cat and mouse with district attorney and the lying midget deputy is about to be over soon, because mister DA is taking his tampon out and moving forward because it’s reaching the point of due dillegence indifference on his part by avoiding it and enabling crimes to take place.

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  32. @joe919 are you proposing a fight at the courthouse so you can disgrace your badge further? You understand that you make all officers look bad with your childish actions, but then again you only care about you.

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  33. You Know everyone just thinks the Sheriff is arrogant, dysfunctional immoral, corrupt, and a possible contributor to” feces art” But. people seem to almost forget about stupid. It gets lost in the shuffle. However, we must all still be fair and give credit where credit is due. Lets take a look at the bottom line cost and the best possible government outcome of such an action as been taken to take my firearm . Open carry is legal in all 50 states and the only requirement is no criminal record. I have a small firearm as Marines are constantly being trained in marksmanship so we don’t need a big one. I carry my firearm in my back pocket. If I take it out of my pocket and move it 12 inches and carry it open on my belt I comply with law. Now, I don’t know how much the attorneys for the Housing Authority and the Sheriff’s Department get paid but everyone knows some of these people get $500.00 an hour and when it comes to billing many have been caught working 127 hours in a 24 hour day. (Attorney Standard Time) Not to mention what it costs to run a court room. So I am going to try to work with the Sheriff’s Office and Mr. Dechellis of the Housing Authority and see if we can’t bring the record to our county of the most idiotic wasteful cost to the taxpayers on record trying to move a firearm 12 inches. That of course would only be if they win. After its over I intend to publish the true cost to us even though both agencies refuse to respect the public’s rights to give out records under the Right to Know Act, For years no one has questioned the Housing Authority on their practices so what Voltaire said becomes true, with the proof coming from the Housing Authority themselves “Anything human beings do left alone long enough will become corrupt” Can anyone remember any time where someone monitored the housing authority? I am learning its not that some Beaver County agencies are not corrupt only that we have not checked some Beaver County agencies for corruption. Spike

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  34. I would like to refer everyone to search The Washington Free Beacon and get a load of some of the quotes from retiring 4 star Marine General “Mad dog Mathis” and compare his quotes to mine “I would go into a school and take out anyone killing our teachers and our kids.” This guy would consider me a weak kneed liberal Marine in desperate need of a booster course in Marine Attitude as mine coddles criminals. This guy has more medals than Sheriff David has pending charges. I will list a few but there are too many to print.
    1. The First time you blow someone away is not an insignificant
    event. That said, there are some a-holes inn this world that need to be shot.
    2. Be polite be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you
    meet.
    3. I come in peace, I didn’t bring artillery. But I’m pleading with
    you if you F with me, I kill you all
    4. There is noting better than getting shot at and missed its really
    great.
    5. You are part of the worlds most feared and trusted force.
    Engage your brain before you engage your weapon.

    I left the aggressive stuff out as children may be reading this stuff.
    Dear Marine Gods of War. Please forgive me for being so liberal. I have been away from any Marine Corps base for more than a year and have been subjected to the likes of Sheriff David and his weakness has rubbed off on me. I promise to work tirelessly to remove him from Office. I deserve a “Code Red” However I intend to work hard to comply with the beliefs of the honorable General “MadDog Mathis” and become a real Marine again. Semper Fi Dennis McKee

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  35. excuse me please read my post I don’t wear a badge anymore I get a pension means I am retired. and who said anything about the courthouse I said come find me I am not at the courthouse (thank God)

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  36. only the truth

    @joe 919”” yes my friend you are brave but dumb fearless but so foolish… even your fucking loony uncle wanted you gone… you gave true servicemen bad names with your shenanigans.

    to the point your hand given pension that by all rights you should have lost if it was done right, compounded with your inability to get hired any where for………. lol such a pudding ass ger a razor and bar a soap clean up post attention to your trick off spring, and quit playing wanna be biker gang boy, go take garbage out at bar for your girl friend and tell her and the other nimrords how tough and smart you are maybe it works for them it doesn’t hold with anyone else, nobody true gives a rat ass about your jelly belly barely able to get your leg over the bike ass. punk you no where I’m at and you don’t want to come find me whoooahhhh ,

    bottom line piece of shit disgrace of a public servant and protector of people

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  37. I guess that hopewell02 found out who J.D really is. It seems like an open invitation for an ass whipping. The door’s wide open hopewell02. Lets see what you do about it !

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  38. Sheriff george david pulling someone over!!!¡!!! .pull over pull over. Or I’m going to bite your hand off.

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  39. Only the truth you and hope well 02 can come to my bar I will buy you a drink and then see what happens from there I guess your another tough guy if I knew who you were I would come find you and school you the old way

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  40. @Joe you realize you are the defination of little man syndrome? The old school way huh? You and three other guys on one with a black jack in hand huh? Joe some of us use alias because we still have a career worth something.

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  41. And I still make mores than all of you

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  42. Met money

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  43. only the truth

    @ joe 919 you make MORES is that like smores what graham CRACK AND A VIKE smashed together with a bud and fish sandwich to the side to wash it down.

    Go take your adderol pay attention, get back under that rock… quit trying to smoke it cover up with it…..

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  44. only the truth

    fucking loser that failed even at suicide…. Now that’s bad and sad……

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  45. Chief David is getting old did anyone EVER consider he might be suffering from some mental kinda breakdown. He’s been elected and reelected he has down lots OF GOO for BC. HE WAS ALSO AN HONEST FAIR JAIL EMPLOYEE FOR YEARS his behavior I’d bazaar and I just feel he should be evaluated. All these bazaar incidents tho inappropriate scarey AND against the law they are recent and something has to be wrong .

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  46. Hey found out who who are sissy your life now you hide behind the badge so go to work for 10 bucks a hour and I will enjoy myself ony boat then go get my bike then this weekend go toy house in cooks forest by the way I am in bridgewater right now come see me tough guy

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  47. Forgot one thing go get a DUI that makes u a real cop lol

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  48. O Brother you are just so precious as you draw conclusions before you even hear the explanation. And, this is not your first time. Being belligerent is bad enough but being belligerent and stupid together is a combination unmatched to have fun with. I hope you realize how much you have helped me. You have allowed me to get virtually everything that has been said about me explained to the public. Thank God even people like you can speak so speak on. Got any idea where these documents are as no one can find them??? Spike

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    • The documents are on the website for the SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN publication. Had you taken the time to click the link, you would have seen that. Those are the words you typed, are they not? First you claim that you have no mental disorders, then you dispute YOUR OWN WORDS claiming that your Borderline Personality Disorder is a gift, and when you feel your need for aggression rising, you just go and pee on a lawyer that deserves it.
      YOUR WORDS OR NOT?
      And before you try to turn this one around on me, let me beat you to the punch:
      Yeah, I have ink. BIG FUCKING DEAL. My artwork in no way, shape, or form diminishes my intellectual capability. Yeah, I swear. GET THE FUCK OVER IT. I have every ability to craft a well written reponse to you without using one tiny little “offensive” word, but I choose not to….well, I choose not to when I’m dealing with you.
      And your statement “They put this out….” No, sweetie, YOU PUT THIS OUT. And I hate to break it to you, but HIPPA law does not apply to me, seeing as YOU made this a public statement when you typed and submitted it. I am also not bound by HIPPA law due to the fact that I am not your doctor, therapist, pharmacist, or any other person in the medical profession that deals with you. YOU VIOLATED YOUR OWN HIPPA GUIDELINES.
      And last, but not least, I am VERY intimately acquainted with the HIPPA guidelines, probably more so than you.

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  49. 22. spikeonline in reply to singularitynow 12:10 AM 11/8/08

    i have managed myself for many years with this disorder and I believe the key is to meet your needs for agression by participating in socially acceptable forms of agression. I have given myself a legal education and I fight for people that cannot either for economic, social or intellectual reasons protect themselves from a dishonest court system. My adversaries are always lawyers and always put up a real battle that more than meets my needs for agression. When I start feeling my bpd needs I go pee on a lawyer that is taking advantage of someone they shouldn’t be. Then I can think of what a great guy I am and many others, especially victims agree with me. As well, people with this disorder must change what they tell themselves to the unemotional truth as our feelings lie to us with great consistancy. They tell us there is danger when no danger exists and they tell us there is no danger when there is danger. I consider bpd to be a gift if it is properly managed. Thanks Dennis McKee Beaver Falls, Pa.

    WELL? Your words or not?

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    • Sure were my words, as I thought at the time I really had it because everyone was saying so but when I did the online test I came up 6 out of 100. Virtually no chance. I wish I did have if as it can confer many creative benefits and I have researched all the famous people that have it and one would be in good company. So I called the VA and asked them and they said I had been tested for all personality disorders and have none of them. So it was my own stupidity for believing people that lied. I see now where they got the pee on lawyers silliness but that was clearly a joke and so silly no reasonable person would believe it. I also talk in this letter about what a great guy I am and that is humor as well. I will restate this and bring it into line with my Veterans Medical records. I have no no personality disorders and no mental illness that makes me a danger to myself or others. As well, even if someone has a disorder like many vets do that does not make them dangerous, 90 Million Americans carry the gene for depressions and personality disorders are very common. If one person has BPD and they have a firearm under the equal treatment premise under the Constitution you must give one to everyone that had BPD. Spike

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    • Nikki no one said I didn’t put it out but I was incorrect. And I believe you are wrong about the HIPPA law not protecting people no matter who releases the records. If any low level employee takes and gives out your medical records or information about what is on them they would be liable, including you. Regarding me giving out my own records, what I said wasn’t accurate so the release came when i said I don’t have what I thought I may have had. In any event here is the HIPPA law you know so much about show me where anyone cannot be held to this? That one must be a Dr. therapist, Pharmacist. I can’t find any of those words in the law.

      The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals’ medical records and other personal health information and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically. The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of personal health information, and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without patient authorization. The Rule also gives patients rights over their health information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records, and to request corrections.

      The Privacy Rule is located at 45 CFR Part 160 and Subparts A and E of Part 164.

      Click here to view the combined regulation text of all HIPAA Administrative Simplification Regulations found at 45 CFR 160, 162, and 164.

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      • I know HIPPA regulation backwards and forwards. It does not apply to me, for a multitude of reasons.
        1. I am NOT in possession of your medical records, nor do I work in any position that would make them available to me.
        2. If YOU make them public, then HIPPA no longer applies.
        3. All I did was copy and paste a comment that you had made on a PUBLIC FORUM that had proven that you had lied through whatever teeth you have left.

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  50. @OhBrother: thank you for taking the time to read that. I also copy/pasted his statement in its entirety, because I had not yet seen that you did also….
    He claims that he made a request 3 weeks ago to the atty that claimed that he said what he said, and he claimed that the statute had run out on the request. So, somehow, I accomplished something that he claimed couldn’t be done by an attorney in 3 weeks, in less than 3 minutes. To me, that screams that the never filed a request.
    Also, he keeps screaming about how he wants ALL of the paperwork and filings made public in regards to his case, but freaks out when I post his own words.
    All I can hope is that the little sheep who believe his lies and bullshit on here finally wake up and realize he’s not as stable as he tries to make himself out to be.
    But again, thank you for also posting the comment.

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    • Wow Nikki You are just so smart doing something like that in 3 minutes. You need to take that old Spike on and show everyone how much smarter you are than he is. Do you know how many cheeseburgers and ink you could buy with the money you win? Joe

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      • Oh lord, did you just make up a different personality again?
        Sadly, I know why you are doing this, even without having to ask you. Anyone who has been following the story about suing the sheriff, and the threads pertaining to it should be able to figure it out also….

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      • Also, I love the way you hurl your petty ass (attempted) insults at me.
        Desperation is such a bitch, isn’t it?
        What in the name of gods holy shithouse is your preoccupation with cheeseburgers??
        I neither want, nor need your money, but you should take that money and invest in some anger management classes….might do wonders for you.
        And lastly, I do not have to prove myself to you, seeing as I hand you your ass on a pretty regular basis.

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  51. Get the fat rat who fixes DUI arrests, get basketball tickets, weekend getaways, stolen quads, and oohhhh, double dips court time, plus a take home car free gas, you get to use of the big swat team ohohoho,,,when a city is distressed. There goes all the mens pay raises, and you thought little johnny martin was bad, Look at yourself. JP check it out or are you buddies with the fatrat
    :erm:

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    • foodforthought

      @ Andy..Amen Brother! The “Fat Rat” is one of the worst. The OT he claims is theft, any court time he claims is theft and any other money he claims, other than his salary ,is theft. And I am glad you bring up the Officer Martin ordeal…that was a sham from the word go…the entire case was fabricated by the fat rat, his boss and the mayor. However, karma is a *@#ch! It must be hard for him to have ummm…2 friends left in law enforcement and to always be looking over his shoulder. Lets see what happens…..

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  52. @joe no you don’t. Been full time for 13yrs, cleared 72k last year. Keep dreaming midget :upset:

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  53. I hope you all understand I do not even have to speak of my medical records they must prove I have something wrong that would cause me to be a danger. I have nothing to hide use my real name and people can see anything I have. And with HIPPA they only have access to my records if I give them permission. If you read what has been presented they admit they released a letter from an outsider that was really part of my records so they have admitted on paper they committed a crime. I can withdraw my statement and show it was error but they cannot. Spike

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    • So basically, you took an ONLINE TEST, and diagnosed YOURSELF as not being afflicted with Borderline Personality Disorder?!?!
      So now, you not only practice law without a license, but also have the ability to diagose or rule out mental/personality disorders BECAUSE THE INTERNET SAID SO???
      Oh, that’s right. It’s like that state farm commercial: “They can’t put anything on the internet that isn’t true….”
      I knew that you would come up with some half-assed response, and again, you did not disappoint.

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      • Nikki, You don’t read real well. I took the online test to see if it was even possible I had this and then I looked at my records so I didn’t conclude anything. My records draw the conclusions. I am not qualified to do so and you are not either. I have been going to the VA hospital for 40 years and I really never looked closely at my records but when I did I saw I have or had no personality disorders and no mental illness that causes me to be a danger to others. So it does not matter what I did online. According to the American Medical Association only qualified Drs can draw these conclusions and The VA hospital has done so. No one on the Sheriffs side can judge this. And I see you are still saying silly things about practicing law without a license as you were soundly defeated with the facts on that one. Funny stuff then you tried to change what you said by saying you can’t hold yourself out as an attorney. Do you think saying more about it now makes you right? You lost and everyone knows it. As to producing my medical records I had long ago tried to produce them but the Sheriff wouldn’t take them so yes I jumped at the chance to produce these records every chance I got. And the part of my records that show I have no personality disorders and no mental illness that makes me a danger will also be produced in court. BTW when we be seeing your records as you don’t even have the courage to tell people who you are. Did you know the story of why I go to the VA hospital? What Unit were you in there Nikki? Looks to me like the silliness here is you and your lack of knowledge regarding the laws. Spike

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      • Like I said there, Dennis (who also doesn’t read very well)-
        You’ve been seeing the same Drs. for 40+ years. It’s not that hard to pull the wool over their eyes. If the sheriffs office had half of a brain working there, they would require you to have an INDEPENDENT EVALUATION done, with a Dr. that has no history with you. I’d be willing to bet the farm that they’d find something different that what your records say.
        I’ve used my name AND MY PERSONAL IMAGE on here since day fucking one. YOU have hidden behind a false name until your stupid ass started having conversations WITH YOURSELF as both Dennis and Spike, and then YOU ended up outing yourself.
        This has nothing to do with me, or my medical records, as my carry permit is not in question.
        Also, I didn’t get proven wrong about the “law/license” thing/. YOU GOT TOLD BY A FUCKING LAWYER THAT YOU CANNOT PRACTICE LAW OR HOLD YOURSELF OUT AS A LAWYER WITHOUT A LICENSE YOU THICKHEADED FUCK.
        Also, I’m willing to bet there is some underlying mental illness, if you were yourself convinced that you had BPD, and just about everyone you knew was convinced that you had it. You should seek medical help OUTSIDE of the VA system.

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    • So, one has to ask…..
      If there is nothing in your medical records from the VA (and god only knows HOW long it’s been since you were evaluated by a PROFESSIONAL), then why all the bitching about your records and such?
      If there is nothing in there about you having been diagnosed with some form of illness or disorder, then you should have no problem (and personally, I would think that you would have jumped at the chance) signing the waiver and producing said records that say that you are mentally stable enough to carry a firearm…..
      I believe that the lying, unstable, disgrace of a Marine doth protest too much… :chicken: :crap:

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  54. This is the reason people that really do have disorders do not get treatment and try to hide it. I don’t even have one and look how I have been attacked because people thought I did. People out there that read this and have a problem in most cases would not seek help. And who could blame them and many of you don’t seem to know people can get better even from illnesses that can make a person dangerous. Stigma in the field is a major problem and why that is should become evident with me. I put my medical records open to the public How about the Sheriff?

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    • YOU ARE THE ONE WHO BROUGHT UP THE SUBJECT. You were the one bitching and crying about a lawyer claiming you said these things, YOU turned around and said the lawyer was lying and it was all made up, but when confronted WITH YOUR OWN WORDS, you try to play the “woe is me” card….
      Borderline personality disorder (along with every other mental/personality disorder) IS NOT CURABLE, but is MANAGEABLE with the correct medications and therapy. People just don’t go to bed with BPD and wake up the next day completely cured. Well, at least not in the real world…

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      • Wow Nikki are you saying the VA hospital is not qualified to determine if someone has mental illness? Please tell me who is qualified to judge there is something wrong You?

        (0)
      • I think your medical advise is the same as your legal advise. You must have a license to practice law. Are you suggesting I be treated for something the VA hospital says I don’t have? Please explain how you go to bed with BPD when you don’t have it? I had totally forgotten I had written that as once I learned I did not have BPD I forgot about it. I am man enough to say I was wrong and move on something you never did with the practice law deal.

        (0)
      • Wow Nikki you are really slow, practicing law and holding yourself out as a lawyer are 2 different things, I am saying and have proved it to all, you do not need a license to practice law. Didn’t you read the cases I put on line? I would wonder why I haven’t been arrested in all these years as I never hid it. Where are they Nikki? Its not like I’m never in the court house now is it? Do you think if I said I robbed a bank on here and that bank had really been robbed they wouldn’t come and get me??? You said the “ink” doesn’t effect your intelligence you mean even when they put it on your head. So I guess you are turning down another public challenge to have me tested just like backing up how smart you are can’t back that up either. L like how you took I have been going to the VA hospital 40 years into I went to the same Drs for 40 years. You mean I lived here 40 years? I didn’t know that. Right Nikki its not about your records its about only mine. You telling others they need to be evaluated with you all inked up and can’t express yourself without using bad language. That wouldn’t be practicing medicine without a license would it? I cited all the laws and case law that said you don’t need a license to practice law where are your cases that say you do? Just more talk. Now you are saying someone can be forced to take an evaluation? Just what law is that one? If that’s the case someone could be forced to take a polygraph. Nikki has it escaped you I told you I would take one and bet you on the outcome? I just offered you 2500,00 if I have any disorders. Looks like you really helped me get this out. The Sheriff spent all this taxpayer money based on a wrong belief I had 10 years ago and now its not true. LOL. There goes the argument right down the drain. He must not be very smart as you told him how I lied. Well then, why would he think I was telling the truth about that? Almost like it was planned. Boy Nikki you sure taught me a lesson you argued with me and it ended up you destroyed the Sheriffs argument. He had it won if you would just have kept your mouth shut as he would have caught me in court not knowing it was coming and I would have had no defense. You have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory Sure am glad you are smart. Now I’m sorry! LoL Better go get some more ink!!! Hey Nikki can me and my buddies come over some night and play Parcheesi on your tattoos while you lecture us on Quantum Mechs? Bill

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      • Nikki, You not only helped me by blowing away the Sheriff’s only possible winning argument you showed it by bringing up a letter I forgot I even wrote from 10 years ago. The letter I wrote was trying to help people that were troubled by letting them know they can control their impulses like we all must do to function. And the way I control mine. You tried to use my good deed against me and it ended up helping. You not liking me has been productive as you do more to help than most of my friends. Thanks Nikki, just for being you. You may be belligerent, offensive, not the brightest, eat too many cheeseburgers, and all inked up but you can still stay I will take all the help I can get. Randy

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      • Ok, there Spike, Dennis, or whoever this 3rd “Randy” character is…
        I’m not attempting to practice medicine without a license, I’ve just stated the obvious that if other people close to you have suggested that you may have a disorder, then maybe you should seek professional help.
        Also, just because you “forgot” that you wrote this comment so many years ago, DOES NOT MAKE IT INVALID. In no way did I help the Sheriff. And there is so much rambling in your statements that I can’t even decipher them.
        I think that you focus so much on my ink because you and I both know that it secretly turns you on. And also, you may brag and boast about your accomplishments, but you couldn’t even be a big enough man to get a tattoo without crying your eyes out. It’s ok, not everyone can handle the pain. Some of us are just better than others. It’s ok, you can admit here that you’re a pussy with multiple personalities….so, should I say this to Spike, Dennis, or Randy??

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    • BACK PEDAL! BACK PEDAL! You sir, are a disgrace to all Marines living and dead. You are a freaking LUNATIC!

      (0)
    • Don’t get it twisted, you did NOT get attacked because of your “fictional” disability. You got attacked because you out and out LIED and then when it was PROVEN that you lied, you tried to backpedal, and turn it around on those who spoke out against you. There is one thing that I will agree with you on (and I seriously cannot believe I just typed those words)…there is a serious social stigma attached to being diagnosed with ANY kind of mental illness or personality disorder, be it something as simple as depression all the way down the line to suicidal/homicidal ideations. That comes from the media, who plays up the “mental illness” card anytime a tragedy happens such as the Aurora Colorado shooting or the Sandyhook Elementary tragedy. Mental illness is a very convienient scapegoat. THAT IS THE REASON THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRUE ILLNESSES ARE AFRAID TO SEEK HELP, BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID THAT PEOPLE WILL LOOK AT THEM AS IF THEY ARE THE NEXT JAMES HOLMES OR ADAM LANZA.
      But then, we have people like you, who self diagnose and then backpedal and re-self diagnose that you have no problems. Here is a tip for you sweetie:
      IF IT WAS MENTIONED/SUGGESTED TO YOU BY THOSE AROUND YOU WHO KNOW YOU THAT THERE MAY BE SOMETHING WRONG, THEN BY ALL MEANS YOU NEED TO SEE A PROFESSIONAL, AND STOP RELYING ON SOME PIECE OF PAPER YOU RECIEVED FROM THE VA MORE THAN A YEAR AGO. SERIOUSLY.
      Schedule yourself an appointment, OUTSIDE OF THE VA HOSPITAL SYSTEM. If there is truely nothing mentally wrong with you, that diagnosis can only help bolster your case. What do you have to fear? Are you afraid that you won’t be able to bullshit a doctor who doesn’t know you? I think that just might be it…

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  55. Excuse me is that all how do you live on such a small wage maybe you should get a part time job

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  56. only the truth

    camp at cooks forest lol, shitty bike and truck wtf, you live and look like a slob, and your pension is minimal kiss that girls ass cause that is your meal ticket and making money off the trick druggie off spring

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  57. @ joe 919 for real your a bitch, tough with punks and women, yeah you will get in a fight in a blink of an eye because your stupid, your not tough never was just fat little Joey with a gun and beer brains…

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  58. Douglas Edgell

    I really do not think John Joe would dumb enough to give John Paul the middle finger. If he did he was dumb, I heard he gave John Paul the thumbs up, just wondering. Last month I took a beating on here because everyone thought it was someones right to be intoxicated in a bar and yelling “Fuck Edgell” to where he could be heard outside of the bar. Yelling fuck you is ok, but if John Joe gave someone the middle finger its wrong ? I do not understand some peoples thinking. And to all the police officers on here sparing back and forth, everyone is feeding into this and it looks bad. I am sure I am gonna take another beating now……..

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    • And please, let me be the first to say this, and I wholeheartedly admit that I WAS ONE OF THOSE POSTERS THAT YOU ARE SPEAKING OF.
      He had EVERY RIGHT to say “FUCK EDGELL”. And, I’m not sure if you noticed it or not, BUT HE WAS IN A FUCKING ESTABLISHMENT THAT SELLS MOSTLY ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES. (otherwise known as a BAR). You do realize that people may become intoxicated while drinking in a bar. I found no fault there either. As long as he wasn’t behind the wheel of a vehicle, he coulda drunk the bar dry for all I cared.
      But yeah, I can understand, you’re a cop, and as we all know, it only takes a minimum amount of functioning brain cells to do you job, so you may not know about the FIRST AMENDMENT. Either that, or you need to brush up on it. And with that being said, I think I am going to exercise my First Amendment rights…just about now.
      :yell: :megaphone: FUCK EDGELL!!

      (0)
      • A minimum amount of brain cells to be in law enforcement. What a god damn half wit. You are nothing more then a brown tooth hoopie Ho from ambridge. You and your significant other Dennis, the other super genius, really need to meet so you can compare Dick sizes. After which you both can compare each others notes on the ” Art of Copy and Pasting in order to sound Educated”. The way you to fight and argue on here is sad and embarrassing and nothing more than a good example of why this county needs help. Actually an example of why this WORLD NEEDS HELP!!!!

        (0)
      • Hey Chuck, you don’t know the first thing about me, so don’t even pretend like you do.
        And, I have to ask- why do you think/assume that I’m from Ambridge?
        I love when random ppl try to scold me….Thank you, that was the best laugh I’ve had all day….

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    • Doug “The Professional” Edgell. I am surprised that you are supporting J.J. when you KNOW what kind of person he is. If you don’t know, then you are as dumb as a box of rocks. But, then again, you were shown the ropes, so to speak, in Alighetto by none other than George “Cuz Cuz” David. This coming from a “Professional” who told a witness to “Mind your own fucking business” when they were trying to tell you what really happened. Go park your ass on Mill Street and catch some real criminals. You know the kind, working people who are going 6 miles per hour over the speed limit. And you guys wonder why you get no respect.

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      • Douglas Edgell

        Lets see here, I did not saw I was supporting John Joe, just don’t think he was dumb enough to think he gave anyone the finger. Ah shown the ropes ? I had 7 years experience before I came to Aliquippa or Alighetto as you want to call it. It is a good town, so why you gotta name call ! And writing on Mill St, I give have to give 10 miles over before I start writing tickets. And i it stops me from having to look at another hurt in an accident, well then yes I am doing my job, and oh 99% of the people I tell to ask for a hearing so they do not get points. And the “mind your own fucking business” Tell me where and when did that happen ?? It never did…. So I guess I do not need your respect….You have none

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      • Yes, it did. Because that person was ME! BTW, you can write tickets all day without ever leaving the police station parking lot. NOBODY stops at the stop sign at the bottom of the Sheffied Ave. off ramp. NOBODY! And how about trying to keep the intersection of Franklin and Spring St. clear of all the drug dealers and hookers? Same goes for Sheffield Ave. and Spring. Oh, that’s right. No free coffee in that part of town.

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  59. what the fuck has become of this, lol the dirty is flying and getting dirtier, yeah John piece of shit who always lied, dirty guards, Doug ” fuck you I don’t take shit, or bust white cocaine dealers in or around certain area- but do traffic to get court time on 51 an mill street ” Edgel common denominator ahhh george david lol lol……….

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  60. Doug. Your a cop cop these guys making comments could last 1 week in quip they ate from the the other side of the river whether there is no crime the dead body thru ever saw was at a funeral home stay safe

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  61. Wow! Edgel defending jj and himself. Edgel you are a true idiot. I remember when you propositioned a female while her son was being life flighted to Allegheny Hospital. And don’t deny it because I was there. You are a terrible police officer and a crappy human. You and georgie david are on the same level crooks and crooked.

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  62. Let me see if I got this right. You don’t think that J.J. is dumb enough to give someone the finger, but you KNOW he’s dumb enough to get drunk in uniform, at a event he was paid to provide security, then let a civilian drive MY county owned car to his house, while he is throwing up in it.

    You don’t think that he is dumb enough to give someone the finger, but you KNOW he is dumb enough to give a sworn FALSE statement pertaining to an incident a F.R.

    OK. Got it. Now where is that box of rocks at….

    (0)
    • Wow there Oh Brother you can sit in judgment of every one. Hiding of course. Did you wear the same police uniform you did the military? Why don’t you at least try to not be a coward and let people know who you are and tell them to their faces. You seem to think your opinion makes things true when it is just your opinion and you are obviously some weak coward that is afraid of their own shadow. Dennis McKee

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  63. Nikki I never said you violated HIPPA You posted part of the public record so you need to pay more attention to what is being said. That letter I wrote is not part of my medical records anyways so pay attention. Do you think I don’t know the difference between a letter I wrote and my medical records? Excluding this you said HIPPA doesn’t apply to everyone and I said it does so show me in the law where it doesn’t and you can’t so you are again wrong. HIPPA applies to any person that releases someones medical records. If you think it does not lets see where it says this? You made the statement. And no one close to me has ever suggested I have any problems only people like you I don’t even know. But it is far more reasonable to conclude the VA hospital knows more than you. Is it not? You want to assess a person you never met and that is just plain stupid and Psycic Network stuff. As far as getting mad at you that is funny I live by “those who the Gods choose to destroy first they make mad” I think you are so stupid and easy to catch it is funny. I don’t have a fixation with cheeseburger you do. I have seen you. My desire for women who deface their bodies with ink puts them in the same desirability category as chimps that don’t take a shower with me. But it is close. If they can’t respect their own bodies they end up being just like you are, I prefer to buy a road map and not have it on a woman’s behind. You didn’t help me with the Sheriff?? Read the case. They were going to use that statement against me as I didn’t remember what I wrote 10 years ago. Who does? Without you doing what you did I would not have been prepared and would have lost. You exposed their ace in the hole by me just getting you mad and having you talk. It is called the law of “unintended consequences” In my 45 years of practicing law illegally without a license I have never got better information from making someone mad than you gave me. Bet the Sheriffs attorneys are just tearing their hair out as from their view some idiot just blew their whole case. LOL :)))))))))))) You sure taught me a lesson Nikki, I’m sorry now :)))))))))))))) I know they watch this web site and have known so that can be an advantage for me as look what you just did. Me using different names as you claim I tried to hide beneath the name spike when it is part on my email address. It claim to know as much about HIPPA as you did about the requirement to practice law but again you have not backed up what you say so cite the part of HIPPA that says what you say. If you are going to debate what laws say first you must learn to read. Just keep being you Nikki Ralph

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  64. I am really fooling people by using different names at its not like the address isn’t at the top of the posting, Every one I send is spikeonline. Just how would I be hiding from that? Spike

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